Tell Me Lies
“To say it in one sentence: For the narcissist lying is fun and a tool, and anybody who doesn’t lie is a fool in the eyes of the narcissist. Trying to communicate with a narcissist is therefore pointless.” – Dr. Ludger Hofmann-Engl
I jumped online tonight to visit all my usual spots for information on narcissists. Instead I decided to just do a google search for “narcissist lies” and landed on Dr. Ludger Hofmann-Engl’s site. He wrote exactly what I was looking for in the last sentence of this page (italics are mine):
Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Lies
When dealing with a narcissist (or a person with borderline), we face one major problem, and this is the narcissist’s attitude towards lying.
While the majority of people will have learned that not only that lying brings about devastation and destruction, it ultimately leads to total isolation and loneliness. This is, it hinders any sincere communication and hence the narcissist will find her/himself increasingly on the outside and excluded.
However, as much as the narcissist notices this isolation and reacts with increasing panic, it does not bring about a modification of the narcissist’s coping strategy.
The attitude of the narcissist towards lying is very childish and simple: If the narcissist lies and gets away with it, (s)he interprets this as being clever and superior to others. In this sense, while common sense clearly sees lying as a social ill, the narcissist views lying as an excellent tool to obtain what (s)he wants and as a means to demonstrate how stupid others are.
A person now, who wishes to engage in real communication and shows openness will be viewed by the narcissist as an utter fool who deserves to be exploited. Willingness to communicate and to show openness will be seen be the narcissist as weakness and stupidity.
When dealing with a narcissist, extreme care must be taken and events need to be recorded. It also is important to communicate with others who have to deal with the narcissist in order to counter-act splitting. This is, the narcissist uses lies in order to set up people against each other. In general, this is quite simple: The narcissist tells a person A that person B doesn’t like person A and the same the other way round. This then prevents A from talking to B and hence both parties can be manipulated through the narcissist’s lies.
While a normal person will be embarrassed when found out lying, not so the narcissist. The narcissist will see this as a threat to her/his superiority and will straight away think of ways of how to overcome this threat and this is by forming new lies.
To say it in one sentence: For the narcissist lying is fun and a tool, and anybody who doesn’t lie is a fool in the eyes of the narcissist. Trying to communicate with a narcissist is therefore pointless.
I had actually started to believe that possibly my mother was no longer a narcissist. This happens to everyone involved with one of these individuals. Over. And over. And over. This is why most experts and anyone who has escaped from a relationship with one of them usually strongly advise that once you determine that someone is a narcissist, you have no further contact.
I have confirmation. She has not been magically cured. It’s been so long since I’ve had any issues with her that I believed she had changed. It is me that has changed. There I go again handing all my power right back to her.
She’s a fanatic about safety. Seriously obsessive. My son’s bus stop is two houses away from ours. She stands out in the driveway just watching him until the bus comes each morning. It’s creepy. My son has told me it creeps him out. Early last week I asked her to stop because it’s embarrassing.
Today she told me that she asked him if it bothered him to have her stand in the driveway and that he said no. She also mentioned that she had asked him if it was embarrassing to him for her to wave at him while he was at the bus stop and he said no. I thought nothing of this except that I must have misunderstood my son when he and I had talked about it, shrugged my shoulders and said, “ok”. I thought it was sort of odd that she felt the need to tell me such mundane details but I got busy making dinner and forgot all about this conversation.
At dinner, my sons were both telling me about their day and told me a funny story about their grandmother trying to figure out the remote. Since she was now the topic of conversation, my 11 year old remembered overhearing the conversation between my mother and I from earlier. He said that she never asked him if standing in the driveway was embarrassing, only if waving to him was embarrassing.
I immediately jumped to the conclusion that she just forgot their conversation. She is getting older. This is a perfectly logical conclusion when dealing with a normal person. My son wanted to know why she would say that she had asked him something that she hadn’t. That’s when it hit me. The lies. Narcissists lie for sport, for no apparent reason at all. They also lie to protect their precious images and to get what they want. She lied because she didn’t want me to think she was embarrassing my son and she wants to continue to stand in the driveway to watch him without me insisting that she stop.
I realize that this sounds like a petty, minor detail that can easily truly be a misunderstanding. I know better when dealing with a narcissist. It’s not petty or minor at all. I’ve lived within a web of these types of petty, minor lies and great big lies my whole life. They all eventually add up to low self-worth, confusion and therapy. I told my son the truth.
I was searching online to try and figure out if I should even bother confronting her about this. I knew before I found my answer that she would just claim ignorance, say that I must have misunderstood her or that she must have misunderstood him, and turn it around by asking me why I’m overreacting and making a big deal over nothing. Typical manipulative behavior. “Trying to communicate with a narcissist is therefore pointless.”. Thank you for the reminder Doctor.
Thanks for stopping by!
Aaaargh! This has got to drive you crazy. It’s funny how she couldn’t just accept what you told her about your son not feeling comfortable with her watching. (Anyways, can’t she watch from a window? I used to do that sometimes so I wouldn’t embarrass the kids).
Yep, I watch from the window that faces the bus stop myself sometimes. I don’t know why she feels the need to actually be outside and I’m not going to ask because any explanation will only drive me more crazy.
It was a bait for who knows what kind of outcome. Patterns like these don’t go away. Accepting them is IMPOSSIBLE. Good for YOU! Saving a drain on you and your families energy.
Like a true warrior
Dawn´s last blog ..The Way I Weigh Things
I so do love that word!!
do you ever think they get so immersed in the lies that they don’t even realize they do it anymore? i have wondered that.
something else i have wondered. if it is so draining on you (or another recipient of such narcissitic behavior) to deal with a narcissist, how much more draining is it to be one? what energy it must take, what wasted energy….
consuella´s last blog ..mumble jumble
No, they realize it. It’s a very conscious effort.
It is absolutely wasted energy and extremely draining. Wasted energy & wasted life. My mom never has time for anything. She’s always saying she has, “20 million things to do”. In addition to maintaining her false image, I believe she’s also OCD. All those routines take up a ton of her time. She’s a bit better about this now that she’s retired but still doesn’t have time for many things she says she wants to do. I firmly believe it’s due to all the time she spends on keeping all her balls in the air. The sad part is, now that I’m an adult and she’s mellowed quite a bit, we could have a much closer relationship if not for her constant nonsense. She’s never been truly close to anyone in her life and so governed by fear that she’s never really done anything. I’d be willing to bet that she doesn’t even know that she has dreams and aspirations beyond what she’s limited herself to.
Cyndi, I honestly don’t know why I bother having a blog anymore, b/c honestly, YOU write all the posts I’m THINKING of writing!! lol.
Hilarious! Sorry for stealing your thunder. In all honesty, though our stories may be very similar in many ways, we all have unique experiences worth sharing. So…blog on, please!
I’m glad Consuela articulated something that EVERY SINGLE PERSON has asked me as the divorce from the N in my life grew more and more twisted.
“Do you think he’s just started believing his own lies” This is such a reasonable question in response to a seemingly endless string of lies, most barely plausible. The fact that the N in my life held tight to them for two years, caused all of our close friends to seriously question his sanity? Lies, he was caught in, lies with no reason, lies to smoke screen, “insignificant lies”, and everything in between.
I truly believe to fully grasp the means and lengths the N will use takes prolonged time, and an acceptance that what you are about to see has no basis in reason. It is purposeful, even if you can’t fathom the purpose, or if the purpose itself evades you. A N has an ulterior motive for every action, plan, conversation, by the way, did you hear, checking in, friendly guesture, thank you, returned phone call, etc.
I began documenting seemingly random things that started to sit funny with me. It took a while but my life and past are slowly becoming more in focus. The acceptance was simultaneously anxiety provoking and relief inducing.
I couldn’t agree more. You hit the nail on the head. Every single word and action is carefully calculated. That’s why it’s so difficult for the rest of us to spot it and so easy for the rest of us to get caught up in the endless circle of trying to figure them out. The sad fact is that they simply don’t think like we do and are completely devoid of actual emotions. That’s so difficult for us to wrap our brains around because it’s so foreign to us. Documenting the nonsense is an excellent idea. I’m happy you got out and are making progress in focusing on yourself. Thank you so much for your comments.