Comments on: Turning It Around With Byron Katie

By: me

me — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 22:30:01 +0000

They are currently investigating the deaths as homicides. It really is awful. Two wrongful deaths suits have already been filed.
me´s last blog ..Beware the Man or Woman who tells you they know the Will of God

By: Cyndi

Cyndi — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 19:39:35 +0000

I’m in shock after reading all the links you sent. I’ve heard of cults, of course, but only in the context of extreme fundamentalist religions. These are self-help and get-rich-quick people. And people are DYING?! I just can’t believe these people aren’t being prosecuted.

By: Cyndi

Cyndi — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:55:43 +0000

And thank you too! I can’t believe an actual therapist used this technique and I’m sorry you were harmed by it. I can certainly understand why. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, there are people who are not good at their jobs in every profession.

By: me

me — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:11:23 +0000

Oh yeah, and it’s actually Ken Keyes. James Ray is the man who is currently being investigated for three deaths in his sweat lodge, and another death this past July at one of his work shops.

http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2009/10/sweat-lodge-deaths-is-heat-on-secret.html

http://www.saltydroid.info/who-killed-colleen-conaway/

By: me

me — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 16:04:35 +0000

Thanks for your response! I did a lot of research because this technique was used on me in therapy and I thought it was really really wrong. It had a really negative effect on me and I tried to apply it in ways that turned out to be very harmful. I hope that most people will see through it immediately. Unfortunately you can see from her videos and transcripts of her “sessions” most people submit to her in her presence.

That is what really upsets me about it. I like your blog by the way!

By: Cyndi

Cyndi — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 13:31:26 +0000

Wow, you have done a considerable amount of research. Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out. I don’t even know who Rick Ross or James Keyes are.

I have read some of those message boards where people talk about the conditions that exist at her “school” and it creeped me out.

I agree with you about “the work” making sense for some of life’s smaller problems but applying it to more complex problems is not effective or at the very least, not enough. When I listened to the one workshop where the woman who had been repeatedly sexually abused as a child was first screaming at Katie that she can’t turn that around on herself and then eventually being convinced to do just that, I was horrified. That poor woman needed a lot more than a public workshop or even a 9 day “school” and she certainly already has enough shame without being told it was her choice all along.

By: me

me — Sat, 31 Oct 2009 00:30:08 +0000

Specifically searching for blogs brave enough to question this woman, delighted to see you used you critical thinking skill to look closer at the truth. Katie uses some tricky word play into manipulating people into agreeing with her. She’s intense, charismatic and kind of frighteningly able to laugh about others suffering. There’s a lot more to the Katie story and I became fascinated by it after feeling that these turnarounds could potentially damage people. It was used on me in therapy and I believe this is unethical.

More research needs to be done on whether these practices truly safe to be used on people in licensed therapy. Most people read a little bit, do some of “the work” on petty angers that didn’t need to exist to begin with and find it helpful. So there’s no harm in that. This woman, I think is potential dangerous the more I look into her. I would never recommend her books to anyone, other than people interested in dissecting the nature of thought control.

Katie says a lot of disturbing things in “Losing the Moon” p35 describing the Holocaust:
“If Someone (God, “what is”), pulls my baby from me – if that’s what it takes, I’m there. Take the baby. Tear my baby from me. Throw it in the fire….My discomfort is my war with God….
You see, there are NO choices. What is, is….
But when we get to the baby thing, we’re getting down to our sacred little concepts now….You take my baby from me, you’re messing with the illusion of I’m the mommy, this is the baby, there’s the daddy…
But tearing the baby away- that’s the higher. That’s the higher, because it snatches your story from you and makes it apparent in your face – nothing’s real short of reality….
That’s it. That’s what is. That’s love. That’s absolutely Un-describable love. That you, God, would even give me that.
Can you know that Hitler didn’t bring more people to realization than Jesus? On your knees – God. God! God! But our stories of reality keep us from the awareness of God is Everything. And God is Good. [...]
There has never been evil and there never will be. Evil is simply a story about what’s not…

But I have trashed the baby when I have trashed the Nazi… I am the baby going into the pit. I am the one throwing the baby in the pit…”

This is frighteningly similar to comments James Ray made about the Holocaust “not being a bad thing.” To James Ray, who wasn’t there mind you, the Holocaust was good and a learning opportunity. He also hired a channelor to tell survivors of his death lodge that the three people who died were “having so much fun they decided not to come back to their bodies.” He is being investigated for his role in these deaths which are labeled “homocides”

She claims to have never read any books on enlighentment, in fact her husband Stephen Mitchell seems to appear anywhere real criticism gets made public of Katie and claim, “Everyone knows Katie doesn’t read books, any claims that she borrowed from Ken Keyes is ridiculous.” However in Losing the Moon and another book “A cry in the desert” both she and steven admit that she had indeed read Ken Keyes and been doing other spiritual teachings at the halfway house.

The fact that she’s not who she claims to be is not as important to me as what she is actually doing to people. The board of Psychology looked into her in California and could nothing since she wasn’t licensed, however her tactics are not going unnoticed. When she was asked, “what would you do if a person had a breakdown after doing a session with her. She said that person would be responsible for their emotional state.

Basically she can harm whoever she wants and they just have to be responsible. Not a very nice person. Anyways overall, I think the “The Work” in small doses may help some people who are new to self inquiry, but it can and often is harmful to many people. There’s pages and pages at Rick Ross the Anti-Cult forum of people recounting what happened to them at her turnaround house including people saying they needed to be put on anti-psychotics after attending and doing long days of fasting and thought manipulation. She uses techniques to specifically bring people into a state of trauma so that they can better do “the work”

Anyways sorry so long. If you want more, read this:

http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2009/08/katie-bar-door.html

By: Cyndi

Cyndi — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 11:28:33 +0000

I intentionally picked a tough one and I share your triggers around child abuse. It’s true, I do want to kick his ass. I so want him to do something in front of me or even to me just so I have an excuse to let him have it. Revenge fantasies are so fun, why does Katie want to take them away from me??!! I don’t think she SHOULD do that!!

You’ve got this one down for sure. I haven’t read anything more than her website and have listened to several workshops so I’m certainly no expert. Her work definitely has value (it better, I’ve been listening to workshops and videos for almost 2 weeks now!!) and I do know that changing our thoughts can be extremely beneficial. I’ll keep giving it a shot. Thanks for doing the work on this and sharing it!

By: Cora

Cora — Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:53:00 +0000

Okay, I’m going to take a stab at this one because I have read her book “Loving what is” which introduces The Work and how to apply it. I think that the reason it does not work for your example is because you are trying to use it on the facts of the situation, rather than your thoughts about the facts. (But I have to still admit, you’ve picked a particularly hard one!) From my understanding, the statement you would be using in this case is the one that causes all the distressing feelings which would be worded something like
“My former friend SHOULD NOT abuse his son.”
Is it true? I would say yes.
Can I absolutely know it is true? Still yes I’d say.
Can I think of any stress-free reasons to keep that thought, that he should not abuse his son? Nope. They are all stressful.
Who would I be without the thought ‘My ex-friend should not abuse his son?’ My gut reaction to this is “a callous jerk”. But when I think of it in terms of who I am WITH the thought the answer is a very outraged, could totally kick-the-guy’s-ass-and-I-don’t-even-know-him-and-he-deserves-the-worst-kind-of-punishment-for-the-worst-kind-of-deed crazy lady, riding on all the bad feelings of my own abuse incident as a child… So, in light of who I am with the thought, who would I be WITHOUT the thought is perhaps a calmer, more put-together individual who would be more open to options and steps I could take to create the right kind of situations/change to positively influence the boy and his road to healing… (in some way?!)
The turnarounds for “My ex-friend should not abuse his son?”
1. My ex-friend should abuse his son? Is this true? No, but of course I also know for myself that my childhood abuse, and the steps to healing from it, have brought a lot to my life that I can be thankful for. So am I open to the possibility that there is some greater good I’m not privy to? sure. But thinking about the situation still makes me feel stressed. This turnaround doesn’t seem to help much.
2. My ex-friend shouldn’t abuse me? You bet. This really rings true. Because any time I read about abuse, as I alluded to above, it still triggers many of my own issues, so that I’m not reacting as a neutral/nurturing/caring adult but rather a scared and confused little girl who still wants to say NO! STOP THAT! So this turnaround makes A LOT of sense to me
3. I shouldn’t abuse me. Duh, like you said, this one is probably the most applicable, and certainly a no-brainer. It is true that I shouldn’t be so hard on myself all the time, and remember that part of me still IS that little abused girl, and all she needs is a gentle hug now and then…

Anyway, my point of going through this exercise is not to refute your claim that it cannot be applied to all situations, but just point out that it’s meant to help bring new perspective to our THOUGHTS about the situations in our life we feel powerless to change. We can’t change the facts, but if we can change our thoughts, it’s amazing what new avenues can open up for us and help us to cope/manage in a slightly freer, less-stressed way.

Love to hear your response…

By: Cyndi

Cyndi — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 11:22:02 +0000

LOL Les, and Accounting was my major during my first botched attempt at college.