Turning It Around With Byron Katie
“The only time we suffer is when we believe a thought that argues with what is. When the mind is perfectly clear, what is is what we want.” – Byron Katie
Last week was not a great week. In addition to learning that my friend’s breast cancer has spread to her liver, I also had an overwhelming load of work to do here at home while my son was sick with the H1N1 flu. Good times.
I began listening to Byron Katie throughout the week. At first I really liked what she had to say. The Work is not difficult to understand. It’s basically an extremely simplified form of cognitive behavior therapy, which is one of my favorite forms of psychology.
As I continued to listen, I was struck several times by how the person with whom she was working ended up blaming themselves for problems they had and that they were grateful to her for showing them the way. In some cases, this seemed completely rational and I could completely understand why they started out angry with someone else only to realize that they were the perpetrator themselves.
The example that pops into my head first is the man who was angry with his ex-girlfriend/neighbor for reporting him to the authorities for illegally renting out a studio apartment in their building. By the time he completed The Work, he realized that he was the one that had broken the law, his ex-girlfriend/neighbor was simply following her own integrity. He still loved her and continuing to blame her was causing him the pain of being separated from someone he loves. That one made sense.
I’m a fan of her tough-love approach, her belief that no one is a victim unless they choose to be, and her assertion that we can find more happiness in life by questioning our own thoughts and beliefs.
However, her overly-simplistic approach and application of the exact same formula to every single person and every single problem just doesn’t do it for me. I’ve already mentioned how I cannot see how any of her “teachings” (she is not a trained counselor, just a self-help guru) apply to someone who has been diagnosed with a horrible disease. I also listened to a most disturbing workshop in which she was able to get a woman who had been horribly sexually abused as a child to say that she was actually the one who allowed herself to be abused in order to obtain her mother’s love. That was when my BS radar went up and I started to do a little investigative work of my own.
I found several critics of her work, the typical criticism reserved for self-help gurus and people who claim to have all the answers for anything that troubles you in life. I also found several message boards with posts from people who have actually doled out the approximate $5000 for her 9 day “school”. Many of them indicate that the school had a decidedly cult-like atmosphere and that it was not at all as described on her website.
Here’s an example from my own thoughts and how it is supposed to go if I do the work prescribed by Dr. Katie….
My thought: ”My former friend abuses his son”
I am then supposed to ask if that thought is true. If I say yes, I am supposed to ask if I can know that for sure. In every workshop I’ve listened to, the participant ends up answering, “no”, that they can’t absolutely know it’s true because after considerable coaching from Katie and reminders that they are not God and therefore, cannot know that anything is true, they are backed into a corner where the only possible response is, “no”. I’m not backed into a corner. I know that my former friend abuses his son because I’ve witnessed it. So, my answer is still yes.
I’ve never heard one workshop in which a participant has insisted that yes, they do know the statement they made is absolutely true so I have no idea where she would go from there.
I am supposed to ask myself how I feel when I believe the “story” that my friend abuses his son and how I treat him when I believe that “story”. I feel angry, sorry for his son and helpless. How do I treat him? I don’t have any contact with him. I cannot pretend that I don’t know about the abuse or his refusal to stop it. Since I found out about the abuse he has no contact with me either. It was a mutual decision reached at the exact same moment with no notification to each other.
I’m also supposed to ask if I can think of any reason to keep believing that “story” that doesn’t cause pain. No, I can’t. However, I don’t see how pretending that this “story” isn’t true is helpful on any level either. She talks a lot about facing reality and claims that our only suffering comes from not facing reality. I’m now being asked to ignore, or not trust what I know to be true. I believe that’s what psychologists would call manipulation and/or crazy-making statements.
After that, participants are supposed to “turn it around”. This means to re-state the statement in at least 3 completely opposite ways. In my example, the turnarounds could be:
“My former friend does not abuse his son”
“I abuse my former friend”
“I abuse my son”
“I abuse myself”
The only one of these four statements that come close to being true is the last one, “I abuse myself”, since I frequently beat myself up, don’t work out when I want to, eat junk food sometimes, smoke, etc. However, I do not abuse my friend or my son and my friend does abuse his son. So, my original thought is still true and now I’m also faced with the shameful truth that I abuse myself. If I hadn’t already known that, it could be extremely painful to come to that realization in front of a room full of strangers and then be sent on my merry way. Furthermore, the fact still remains that my friend abuses his son and the thought I have brought up has not even been addressed, except that I am supposed to stop believing it.
So, while I am all about working on moving on from the past and reframing our own negative thoughts and do find some value to be gained from some of her opinions, I just can’t jump on the I love Katie bandwagon. As far as the quote I chose for the beginning of this post, that is the biggest bunch of nonsense I have read in some time. I want my friend to have cancer? Nope. I want my other former friend to abuse his son? Never.
It seems, as is the case with many self-help gurus, pop-psychology celebrities, tv shows and radio call-in shows, those who are desperately seeking answers and/or relief are lured in by the promise of a quick fix. The answer to all your problems can be found in this one book, exercise, workshop or school. I’m not buying it.
I’d love to hear from others who have read her work, done her work and/or actually attended her workshops or school. What do you think? Am I missing something?
Thanks for stopping by!
I admit that I haven’t read the material you are discussing here, but it does seem like you are starting with a principle that doesn’t fit into the program, i.e., you are going with a premise that you know to be true, when the program participants tend to be people who DON’T know whether their beliefs are accurate, who react anyway, not knowing whether they are right, and whose assumptions or faulty conclusions end up hurting others–all based on misinformation or lack of full disclosure. You are using an example where you KNOW the truth. I don’t think that example necessarily works, if all the examples you have are people who admit they don’t necessarily KNOW their belief is true.
Does that make sense?
New here. Hello!
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Hello, and welcome! Yes, it’s true I intentionally picked a statement that I know to be true. I was questioning the idea that her simple questions could work on all thoughts, beliefs and feelings, as she claims. Having said that, the people I listened to in her workshops also believed that what they thought and believed and felt were true. I think her work can be helpful in certain circumstances and will continue to listen to her workshops and videos. I’m just not convinced that she holds the answers to peace and happiness for everyone in every situation.
I am not familiar with Katie’s work so I cannot offer an opinion. Your thoughts seem sound. There are no magic bullets or one size fits all and if the pattern is the same for everyone whom she talks to then we know that her approach is inherently flawed. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.
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well i hate to say anything because i know absolutely nothing about this person. never read or heard a thing. but based on what you told me here, she sounds like another one of those hukie self-help gurus who are out there to make a few bucks on people who are actually searching to answer some of the deeper questions. i know there are good ones out there. i don’t mean to poo poo the entire self-help world. i just know that i have found more crap than truth. it is all so gimmicky to me. it doesn’t deal well with the seeming inconsistencies of our lives. if we can all project good into the universe and change things by thinking positively then how come there is still so much evil in this world? why are we all not rich and successful? i guess i’m old fashioned in that i still believe the typical judeo-christian answers to questions like this…evil things happen because people have the ability to make evil choices. my positive energy won’t change that. i think the real question is, what changes a person’s heart? how does real transformation take place? these are the existential biggies for me….i am so rambling now….
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Mark & Consuela: I have to agree that it’s a flawed system and just another “get help quick scheme”, much like all the “get rich quick schemes” out there. There are some useful things to take away, especially when applied to certain situations but no two people or two situations are alike and therefore, cannot fit neatly into any little box.
Just like when we meet anyone new, it takes a while to really get to know them. From more than one facet.
I learn what I can from people, and books
People are a lot like books. We can tell so little about a person or a book by scanning the pages, reading a bio or the testimonials written on the back cover. … or do we, I wonder.
Byron Katie is not for all … I have read all of her work. I like her ability to cut the wheat from the chaff. And for me, personally, I have gained some insight to myself along the way and in a significant way. I warmed up to her slowly, over time. Without textbooks challenging me with the ’scientific’ approach … what ever that means.
We all find our way how we find it, individually. No right or wrong method exists … you must find your own river and steer your own boat.
Thanks for the post … what a feast!
There is no one size fits all answer in life … learning a different perspective though. Now that is BIG.
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You are so right, no one way is right for everyone and I do think there is some insight to be gained from her. I do love learning about new perspectives and ways of looking at things. I have already gained some myself, thanks to the recommendation.
I’m not just not “all-in”.
I’m fascinated with psychology and what makes people do the things they do. However, I am now happier than ever that I decided to major in Accounting.
LOL Les, and Accounting was my major during my first botched attempt at college.
Okay, I’m going to take a stab at this one because I have read her book “Loving what is” which introduces The Work and how to apply it. I think that the reason it does not work for your example is because you are trying to use it on the facts of the situation, rather than your thoughts about the facts. (But I have to still admit, you’ve picked a particularly hard one!) From my understanding, the statement you would be using in this case is the one that causes all the distressing feelings which would be worded something like
“My former friend SHOULD NOT abuse his son.”
Is it true? I would say yes.
Can I absolutely know it is true? Still yes I’d say.
Can I think of any stress-free reasons to keep that thought, that he should not abuse his son? Nope. They are all stressful.
Who would I be without the thought ‘My ex-friend should not abuse his son?’ My gut reaction to this is “a callous jerk”. But when I think of it in terms of who I am WITH the thought the answer is a very outraged, could totally kick-the-guy’s-ass-and-I-don’t-even-know-him-and-he-deserves-the-worst-kind-of-punishment-for-the-worst-kind-of-deed crazy lady, riding on all the bad feelings of my own abuse incident as a child… So, in light of who I am with the thought, who would I be WITHOUT the thought is perhaps a calmer, more put-together individual who would be more open to options and steps I could take to create the right kind of situations/change to positively influence the boy and his road to healing… (in some way?!)
The turnarounds for “My ex-friend should not abuse his son?”
1. My ex-friend should abuse his son? Is this true? No, but of course I also know for myself that my childhood abuse, and the steps to healing from it, have brought a lot to my life that I can be thankful for. So am I open to the possibility that there is some greater good I’m not privy to? sure. But thinking about the situation still makes me feel stressed. This turnaround doesn’t seem to help much.
2. My ex-friend shouldn’t abuse me? You bet. This really rings true. Because any time I read about abuse, as I alluded to above, it still triggers many of my own issues, so that I’m not reacting as a neutral/nurturing/caring adult but rather a scared and confused little girl who still wants to say NO! STOP THAT! So this turnaround makes A LOT of sense to me
3. I shouldn’t abuse me. Duh, like you said, this one is probably the most applicable, and certainly a no-brainer. It is true that I shouldn’t be so hard on myself all the time, and remember that part of me still IS that little abused girl, and all she needs is a gentle hug now and then…
Anyway, my point of going through this exercise is not to refute your claim that it cannot be applied to all situations, but just point out that it’s meant to help bring new perspective to our THOUGHTS about the situations in our life we feel powerless to change. We can’t change the facts, but if we can change our thoughts, it’s amazing what new avenues can open up for us and help us to cope/manage in a slightly freer, less-stressed way.
Love to hear your response…
I intentionally picked a tough one and I share your triggers around child abuse. It’s true, I do want to kick his ass. I so want him to do something in front of me or even to me just so I have an excuse to let him have it. Revenge fantasies are so fun, why does Katie want to take them away from me??!! I don’t think she SHOULD do that!!
You’ve got this one down for sure. I haven’t read anything more than her website and have listened to several workshops so I’m certainly no expert. Her work definitely has value (it better, I’ve been listening to workshops and videos for almost 2 weeks now!!) and I do know that changing our thoughts can be extremely beneficial. I’ll keep giving it a shot. Thanks for doing the work on this and sharing it!
Specifically searching for blogs brave enough to question this woman, delighted to see you used you critical thinking skill to look closer at the truth. Katie uses some tricky word play into manipulating people into agreeing with her. She’s intense, charismatic and kind of frighteningly able to laugh about others suffering. There’s a lot more to the Katie story and I became fascinated by it after feeling that these turnarounds could potentially damage people. It was used on me in therapy and I believe this is unethical.
More research needs to be done on whether these practices truly safe to be used on people in licensed therapy. Most people read a little bit, do some of “the work” on petty angers that didn’t need to exist to begin with and find it helpful. So there’s no harm in that. This woman, I think is potential dangerous the more I look into her. I would never recommend her books to anyone, other than people interested in dissecting the nature of thought control.
Katie says a lot of disturbing things in “Losing the Moon” p35 describing the Holocaust:
“If Someone (God, “what is”), pulls my baby from me – if that’s what it takes, I’m there. Take the baby. Tear my baby from me. Throw it in the fire….My discomfort is my war with God….
You see, there are NO choices. What is, is….
But when we get to the baby thing, we’re getting down to our sacred little concepts now….You take my baby from me, you’re messing with the illusion of I’m the mommy, this is the baby, there’s the daddy…
But tearing the baby away- that’s the higher. That’s the higher, because it snatches your story from you and makes it apparent in your face – nothing’s real short of reality….
That’s it. That’s what is. That’s love. That’s absolutely Un-describable love. That you, God, would even give me that.
Can you know that Hitler didn’t bring more people to realization than Jesus? On your knees – God. God! God! But our stories of reality keep us from the awareness of God is Everything. And God is Good. [...]
There has never been evil and there never will be. Evil is simply a story about what’s not…
But I have trashed the baby when I have trashed the Nazi… I am the baby going into the pit. I am the one throwing the baby in the pit…”
This is frighteningly similar to comments James Ray made about the Holocaust “not being a bad thing.” To James Ray, who wasn’t there mind you, the Holocaust was good and a learning opportunity. He also hired a channelor to tell survivors of his death lodge that the three people who died were “having so much fun they decided not to come back to their bodies.” He is being investigated for his role in these deaths which are labeled “homocides”
She claims to have never read any books on enlighentment, in fact her husband Stephen Mitchell seems to appear anywhere real criticism gets made public of Katie and claim, “Everyone knows Katie doesn’t read books, any claims that she borrowed from Ken Keyes is ridiculous.” However in Losing the Moon and another book “A cry in the desert” both she and steven admit that she had indeed read Ken Keyes and been doing other spiritual teachings at the halfway house.
The fact that she’s not who she claims to be is not as important to me as what she is actually doing to people. The board of Psychology looked into her in California and could nothing since she wasn’t licensed, however her tactics are not going unnoticed. When she was asked, “what would you do if a person had a breakdown after doing a session with her. She said that person would be responsible for their emotional state.
Basically she can harm whoever she wants and they just have to be responsible. Not a very nice person. Anyways overall, I think the “The Work” in small doses may help some people who are new to self inquiry, but it can and often is harmful to many people. There’s pages and pages at Rick Ross the Anti-Cult forum of people recounting what happened to them at her turnaround house including people saying they needed to be put on anti-psychotics after attending and doing long days of fasting and thought manipulation. She uses techniques to specifically bring people into a state of trauma so that they can better do “the work”
Anyways sorry so long. If you want more, read this:
http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2009/08/katie-bar-door.html
Wow, you have done a considerable amount of research. Thanks for the link, I’ll check it out. I don’t even know who Rick Ross or James Keyes are.
I have read some of those message boards where people talk about the conditions that exist at her “school” and it creeped me out.
I agree with you about “the work” making sense for some of life’s smaller problems but applying it to more complex problems is not effective or at the very least, not enough. When I listened to the one workshop where the woman who had been repeatedly sexually abused as a child was first screaming at Katie that she can’t turn that around on herself and then eventually being convinced to do just that, I was horrified. That poor woman needed a lot more than a public workshop or even a 9 day “school” and she certainly already has enough shame without being told it was her choice all along.
Thanks for your response! I did a lot of research because this technique was used on me in therapy and I thought it was really really wrong. It had a really negative effect on me and I tried to apply it in ways that turned out to be very harmful. I hope that most people will see through it immediately. Unfortunately you can see from her videos and transcripts of her “sessions” most people submit to her in her presence.
That is what really upsets me about it. I like your blog by the way!
Oh yeah, and it’s actually Ken Keyes. James Ray is the man who is currently being investigated for three deaths in his sweat lodge, and another death this past July at one of his work shops.
http://cosmicconnie.blogspot.com/2009/10/sweat-lodge-deaths-is-heat-on-secret.html
http://www.saltydroid.info/who-killed-colleen-conaway/
I’m in shock after reading all the links you sent. I’ve heard of cults, of course, but only in the context of extreme fundamentalist religions. These are self-help and get-rich-quick people. And people are DYING?! I just can’t believe these people aren’t being prosecuted.
And thank you too! I can’t believe an actual therapist used this technique and I’m sorry you were harmed by it. I can certainly understand why. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised, there are people who are not good at their jobs in every profession.
They are currently investigating the deaths as homicides. It really is awful. Two wrongful deaths suits have already been filed.
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